16ga.com ~ View topic - Elmer Keith's 1-3/8 ounce 16 gauge load ?

Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 354

Slidehammer,

No hope here.

This fellow brags about forty year relationships with stupid criminals for his information sources and guidance on right and wrong. Tries to rationalize it by claiming the crime was committed against a friend (even worse).

Having spent time and money allegedly attending the Colorado School of Trades to prepare themselves for a career in gunsmithing, the friends have a chance with the main man in America at the time who could make or break their careers by the mention of them in his widely read articles and books. Then they claim to rummage and destroy his personal property (crime in Idaho) and brag about it. Talk about stupid.

Today, when handgun writer John Taffin discusses an up-and-coming gunsmith in his articles or books, that gunsmith is set for life and triples his fees immediately. Having bought lots of custom guns, I have experienced the Taffin Effect. Delivery times go from weeks to years.

There aren't too many one timers in the world of crime or stupidity. Wonder if those boys are still around.

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Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 354

Joined: 29 Jan 2009 Posts: 31 Location: N. FL

"Hammer & Slidehammer" are you guys by any chance, related Confused

. You know nothing about me, my experience or my knowledge of the subject being discussed, yet you seem to have nothing pertinent to say, aside from personal insults. One of you suggested that killing someone for a practical joke, that hurt no one, was acceptable, because it embarrassed your hero?? I could fill you in on all that, long range handgun shooting experience (prior to the elbow injury) , outdoor writing, education, gun building, competition shooting experience, rifle, pistol, clays.. etc etc.. But this discussion is meaningless, as long as your objectivity is clouded by your hero worship of a man who was very controversial in his claims & his self aggrandizement. The same questions & skepticism I have of him were widespread througout the shooting & outdoor writing community. That pretty well says it all, regardless of what some "keyboard playstation shooting champions" have to say about it. Some loved him & thought he hung the moon, and some thought he was a loudmouth liar. As a writer for many years, I always felt that honesty to your audience was a paramount responsibility. Maybe that's why I never had much respect for him.
You boys can take it easy now.
"That's all I got ta say about tha-at" Very Happy

Forrest Gump

Greg
PS: You guys are both invited down to my range anytime for a little friendly competition (yes the basics are the same). Ten bucks a point... I'll buy the beer afterward Smile

Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 354

Excerpts from Best of Shooting Times and Guns & Ammo, Volume II, pages 100 - 104, article by Ross Seyfried, recognized by many as the first combat pistol World Champion. Article was first published in Guns & Ammo in September 1998.

"I" in these excerpts refers to the author -- Ross Seyfried.

"He" refers to Elmer Keith.

"Long-range handgunning is not about a special gun, load, or target... To begin with, we need to understand that this is Elmer Keith's game. Whether he invented it is conjectural, but he elevated handgunning to a level unknown before or since. When he was in his prime, he was simply magnificent with a sixgun in his hands... He thought nothing of telling the stories, for he had done the feats and felt that they were good, but not necessarily remarkable. He was so good that he did not comprehend that mere mortals were unable to understand, let alone do, what he had done."

"I watched him shoot when he was old, borderline on feeble. He was good enough then to be almost unbelievable -- good enough to leave absolutely no doubt that he had done everything he claimed. We won't achieve his level..."

"When I used to shoot two guns full of ammo through my four-inch Model 29 every day, at distances close to 500 yards, I felt pretty good..."

Later in the article, Ross Seyfried describes shooting at a trotting coyote at 450 yards with his 44, which then shifted into high gear. Since Seyfried reported killing the coyote, guess Ross Seyfried is whatever we claim Keith to be. Ross's full-size picture adorned Jeff Cooper's class room (sort of a mutual endorsement), so guess the late Colonel is in on the conspiracy too. Others like Brian Pearce, John Taffin, and John Linebaugh have developed mastery of long range handgunning too, or lying.

"Elmer had an explanation for this type of hit. He [Elmer] said, 'The trajectory is really high on a very long shot. The bullets are way up there, go plumb to heaven, get some guidance and come back down'."

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Joined: 29 Jan 2009 Posts: 31 Location: N. FL

Had lunch with Ross once, in Denver, years ago. Good guy, with a great sense of humor. He said he was having a set of ultralite "graphite" ear muffs made. He said the recoil from his big guns (577 doubles etc) was making his head snap back so hard, his ear muffs came forward & slammed shut on his nose Laughing

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As for LR handgunning, I have no problem with people lobbing bullets at mortar type trajectories a half mile or so. As long as it's not at game. That, I believe is irresponsible, and more fodder for the anti-hunting groups who are constantly looking for ammo.

I quit reading the gun rags years ago.

Greg

Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 354

Split the difference and make it a 23 gram load and call it good .

Regards Charles

Joined: 29 Jan 2009 Posts: 31 Location: N. FL

Hammer, Old cowboy saying: "When you find yourself in a hole, it's probably a good idea to stop digging" Smile

Greg

I raise & train mules. A vocation that prepares me well for conversations like this Laughing

Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 354

Glad you took the advice of an old cowboy and quit listening to those stupid criminals. Elmer was an old cowboy. Glad to see that you're stopping before the hole gets too deep for you.

Wish this thread had stuck to the initial question concerning 16 gauge loads. Don't know how the excursion on attacking an honorable deceased gentleman could expand our knowledge of the 16 gauge shotgun.

It's Mother's Day, it's beautiful outside, and I am going shooting with my family.

Consider the topic over.

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