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Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 3

I am trying in vain to load 1 oz. loads using the balistic products hulls and no matter what I do I seem to keep crushing the hulls just above the brass. I am using a MEC 600 Jr. and I am using the 16 ga maunal from Balistic products. I first tried loading the BP Multi-Hull with the SG16 wad using 23 grains of Herco and 1oz of shot. Thinking that the problem was not enough volume in the case for this powder, I went to 16.5 grains of Red Dot, same wad, shot and hull...and they are still crushing! I am using 40 lbs of wad pressure. I have adjust the cam in every direction even taking the cam right off the loader, as well as adjusting the punch to all heights....any ideas what I may be doing wrong??!?!? Also, I am using a 6-point crimp and unskived hulls. I skived a few just to try it, but no difference.

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

Are you using the 2-1/2" hull or the 2-3/4" hull?

Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 3

2 3/4

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

If you've got 3/8" to 1/2" free space in the hull befor crimping you should have no problem. Have you got the Manual? If not go out to Mec and download one. You should not even ned 40 lbs. of pressure on the wads. I haven't used herco or red dot but I've never had a BPI hull crush. Something has to be out of adjustment on your crimper. You can also call Mec and they will help you.

http://shootingboxes.blogspot.com/

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 224

I had this problem with my Sizemaster with the Cheddite hulls (the BPI hulls are cheddite hulls).

First, make sure your shell isn't too full. You should have about 1/4" to 5/16" (or 3/8" as others have said...just not less than 1/4") of space left in the hull before you crimp...but I think you are doing this already.

Second, you want very little pressure from the cam. I have mine adjusted to just barely put pressure on the roller bearing as the shell is crimped.

Third, and this is probably your problem, you need to back off on your crimp depth on your crimping die. I went through about 20 or so hull before I got it right.

Finally, as you noticed, skiving these hulls makes no difference. Don't waste your time. If you do plan on loading these hulls, I highly suggest you get a brass crimp starting tool from BPI. This made a world of difference on these new hulls for me. If you don't, you might start noticing the hull collapsing just below the crimp, as the plastic crimp staters just don't seem to cut these new hulls corectly, at least for me. For now, you can also try adjusting your crimp starting die. The initial crimp start should leave your shell open a little bigger than the width of a pencil. If your starter die is crimping too much, it will give you problems on the final crimp station with these hulls.

Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 3

Thanks for all the help. I can tell you that I have the 3/8" of room as everyone suggested. As for the start crimp, I have an older press, so all the dies are steel with a brass start crimp rather than the newer plastic dies that they make now. (This in a 600 Jr, not the 600 jr Mark V) The start crimp looks good, the pencil dia. as suggested. I can tell you that once I go into the final crimp station that it seems to take an extensive ammount of pressure to finish the hull (or crush it in this case) much more than I have experenced in loading 12 and 28 ga. hulls on two other 600 Jr presses and have. I checked to be sure that the correct die was in there, and checked to see if there was any forign material in the die to see if something was causing a problem...all looked good. I could not tell if the finish die was for a 2.5" shell rather than a 2.75". Did/does MEC make such a thing? Could that be my problem? all the other parts seem to be the correct length. One last note, I did not run these through the sizing station b/c they already came primed. Thanks!

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

It sounds like it's an adjustment problem on the final crimp.
Follow Bowbuilders advice, and make your adjustments according to the manual. If you don't have one, download it from MEC's website.
It's either in the cam or crimp depth adjustment.

Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 224

And you are correct that you do not need to size the new hulls.

Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 224

To make these hulls crimp correctly, you will end up with a slightly longer shell than a factory loaded shell. Say, about 1/8" longer. If you are trying to make your finished shell the same length as a factory Remington or Fioochi, you will crush the hull every time.

I agree. Forming a new crimp from scratch in any new plastic hull is a real pain. The average plastic crimp starter on any press is designed to follow the folds in an existing crimp and not form new creases.

I finally ended up making an inside the hull crimp forming tool out of aluminum stock. It has reverse angles cut into the shaft to mate with the ones in the outside crimp starter. Essentially, my tools trap the plastic hull mouth walls between the mated angles and imprint the proper fold creases into the plastic to form a new crimp. I used a Lee crimp starter from one of the old Lee Loader hand tool kits as the outside starter and a plastic mallet. These old Lee starters have some of thr sharpest angles of any crimp starter I've ever seen. I indexed the two forming tools to line the angles up properly. I'd line the marks up, push down hard, and then give the outside starter a good whack on top with the mallet.

Of course, this was all done as a preliminary operation. It was time consuming and a real pain. I also still managed to screw some hulls up. Once the creases were misformed, the hull would never crimp well. I'd load it once and toss it.

I eventually gave up using unstarted new hulls and now load only once fired ones. It's a lot easier and quicker. It is also less expensive if you can find a good source for reasonably priced once fired hulls.

I think most folks who like these uncrimped hulls spin a roll crimp them. It makes much more sense to do so IMO. all you need is a hull vise, a spin crimp tool, and a drill or drill press along with some thin over shot wads. It is certainly neater, cleaner, and quicker IMO. It is also the best way to load Foster style slugs, and some buckshot loads as well. A roll crimp takes up less hull mouth as well, so you can stuff extra buckshot pellets in for a more effective load in a 16 or a 20 ga shell.

I was experiencing the same thing with new hulls and some old. Switched over to the brass starter crimp and this helped matters greatly. Also, as was posted earlier very little crimp depth is needed.
Charlie Wink

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

sounds like Mec adjustment issue. I do away with all that worry and roll crimp. Maybe a little more work, but worth it. Less worry about components used and where final shot column is on a roll crimped load. Just don't need as much hull to roll compared to folded.

I prefer roll crimps also. I love being able to grab a reload out of my vest and instantly be able to tell what load it is. No guesswork.

Roll crimping works for hunting ammo just fine. Target loads for weekends at the club is another matter. The problem for me here is time. I'm set up with a 16 ga progressive press so I can reload my pet 3/4 ounce target loads faster than I can shoot them on a Sunday morning. Otherwise, I'm going backwards. I'm told I'm already doing enough of that. Very Happy