16ga.com ~ View topic - Toxic Vs. Non-Toxic

Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 428

I have always wondered why nickle-plated lead shot or copper-plated lead shot would not be considered NON-TOXIC. Like asbestos is in floor tile, it is not considered toxic until it becomes FRIABLE (airborne).

Since the lead is totally encapsulated by the nickle or copper, why should it be considered TOXIC? Am I missing something here Rolling Eyes

Anybody

Member Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 348 Location: Missouri

I just wonder how much birdshot I have ingested over the last 63 years!!!

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

I saw this thread and got all ready to craft a data based, scientifically/politically oriented reply.

However,
Shootingsioux pretty much nailed it IMO. Wink

Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 728

I posted my take on the toxic/non-toxic issue on the Federal tungsten Polymer thread. Shooting Sioux and Woodcock have got it right though; it's impossible to build any kind of objective response to a law passed for subjective reasons.

I usually leave this question out of a conversation because it tends to hurt our cause with the wrong audience but demonstrates how absurd the non toxic shot requirement has always been; Why do I have to shoot non-toxic shot at the ducks I jump shoot from the same river side fields I shoot pheasant with lead?

Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 728

Please accept my apology I posted my non toxic diatribe on the Fiocchi Tungsten Polymer thread.

Mr. ShootingSioux indeed got it right! As to the nickle or copper coating of lead shot though, these would not stand up to the insides of waterfowl gizzards- the birds swallow the pellets after all so that they can grind up their food inside the gizzards. By the way, I don't know how serious a problem it was for waterfowl to be gathering lead shot but I can say that as to upland game I have never seen any lead shot inside pheasant or grouse gizzards.

Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 428

Those Dumb A-s Daffy Ducks Exclamation

Their brains are water-logged Exclamation

Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 428

Spike & Top_Cat

No need for apologies. I raised this question in the wrong place so I AM TO BLAME. GO AHEAD and SHOOT ME if someone has to take the fall Crying or Very sad

We only have ourselves to blame for the required use of non- toxic shot
issue and thousands of other life style effecting regulations. Junk science
abounds in the world of Political Science that is practiced by ALL of our elected repersentatives . On all levels of of our so called , and mis-labeled ,
democratic government.
The only cure for our ills, as I see them, will be found at the voting booth. With out armed revolt or much effort on anyones part, all governmental
caused problems will go away if voters would only follow a few simple rules;
1. Never pass up a chance to vote.
2. Never vote for an incumbent.
3. Never donate money to any political party.
4. Study the issues before you vote.
5. Communicate with your elected representatives. Hold them to their word
and their feet to the fire.
6. Never trust a Fart, Elected or otherwise.

Have a good day....Rabbitdog

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

Unfortuneately, the non-toxic train has long since left the station.
The fact is, Lead is a toxin in the environment. Long term exposure DOES have negative physiological effects on birds and mammals.

Since ducks have a tendency to visit the same "water holes" year after year, they can and have shown ill effects from lead.

Now, can anyone show effects on population dynamics??

There lies the problem. Same goes for the condors in CAL. Is lead a toxin and can it be detrimental the health of Condors and other raptors?? The answer is yes. Now have any and how many have shown these effects and as a direct result of consumption of rifle bullets???

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

Many things are toxic in differing amounts. If you've ever seen a child suffering from iron toxicity I can assure you you are not likely to forget it. Iron toxicity, like from STEEL. Shocked

Long term exposure to SUNSHINE has negative effects, the BPA that leaches into your bottled water from its container as it sits in the sun is carcinogenic, as are the benzopyrienes on your grilled steak and the fumes from your motor fuel, ad nauseam.
Now don't forget the pesticides and herbicides sprayed on those soybeans, rice and corn that mr. duck is feeding on----or the fact that in those same fields, doves were shot with lead just two months earlier.

First the lead has to be available.
Second the lead has to be ingested.
Third the lead has to be assimilated.
etc., etc.,etc.

Most 'lead toxicity' occurs at or above 1150fps. Wink

(Not jumpin' on you Hootch, just the lead debacle)

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2350 Location: West MI

Hootch, you're swatin at a hornets nest here. I'll add just this. If anyone want's to learn a little more about how lead and other toxins for that matter can possibly get into the food chain go do some searching for "agircultural uptake" It's a study that looks at the different plant species and how efficiently they pick up and process toxins from their surounding area. It's seems easy to me to see how any animal that injests plant stock or seeds from contaminated plants can start the chain of bio collection ending up in the top preditors.

On the brighter side; you'll learn that the basis of alot of the studies are for identifying the different plants abillity to absorb or "uptake" certain toxins with the idea of using these plants as tools to aid in cleaning contaminated areas wheather it be radioactive, heavy metal or whatever.

Gentelman, I'm just passing this information along to help aid in making an informed opinion on the non-tox issue. Wheather the info is absorbed favorably or scorned I have no control of that. But please don't kill the messenger; the studies are out there being conducted and for the viewing of any willing to see it.

If you'll excuse me I will go and don my flac jacket now. Very Happy

Take care, Mike

PS, hey Hootch did you see that little 24ga sxs over on GB? Sweet little machine, I wont be going after it so rest assured I won't be bidding against you.

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

No, I did not, but will as soon as I finish post.

As far as dove's go, we will be shooting non-toxic at them real soon. I am guessing in next three years.

Soon after, it will be all game.

Don't even get me started on pesticides and farming. But alot easier to pick on a few measely hunters who are already looked unfavorably on by a majority of the public than to jump on the giant sacred cow "agriculture"