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Shooting a vintage Lefever as I do, I often reload shells with brush wads, or at least my version of them (wads with the petals cut off). I do this for three reasons: 1. It saves space in 2.5" hulls and gives me more flexibility in load choices. 2. Modern wads were not invented when my gun was built, so I figure this approximates loads in use around the turn of the century. 3. I assume the scrubbing action of unprotected pellets will result in more open patterns, since my gun shoots pretty tight when using modern wads (it's choked m/f).

Having said all that, I'm curious if brush wads are really any less effective at normal ranges (out to 40 yds)? I plan on having the chokes opened soon anyway, but it is an interesting point to ponder.

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

I guess you could pattern it, and find out.

I have patterned it. The patterns are even, but still pretty tight. I was just curious if anyone else has any experience with this.

Joined: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 52

DanFan,

I've monkeyed enough with spreaders at the patterning plate, and with shooting unwrappered shot in BPowder loads to suggest that your petal-less load may not show, choke-wise, a whole lot of difference from today's modern one-piece wads....... unless you are shooting the softest shot, low in antimony.

Even back then, vintage 'brushloads' often used a series of thin cards wads layered within the shot column (Remington did, maybe others) to disrupt and open the shot column. We may not have liked what we saw on the plate for even distribution with these, but they apparently killed birds well enough to be marketed for many years.

Old Stoeger's catalogs, and the like, have cut-away illus. of them if you've access to any. They'd certainly be easy to replicate with some thin overshot cards (in your gauge) mixed in the column.....now you just need to find some very soft shot.....and you'll have the 'real' deal. Me, I'll stick with the Poly-T device, among others.

Rob Harris

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

I tried creating brush loads for my fox by removing the petals. They patterned ok, but only about 3% more open. I did find that cardboard dividers (this was before I could get the X inserts from BPI) further opened the pattern about 8% on average. The caveat is that the insert patterns had uneven pellet distribution and sometimes had holes. My sample was only 10 targets per loading so it may not be truly valid.

The challenge I found with brush wads achieved through petal removal is thatt it created more volume in the hull, which caused me to put filler in the behind the shot in order to get a good crimp. Today I would probably use a felt 20ga wad in the bottom of the cup and a overshot card on top with the X inserts from BPI, but it is more trouble than I am willing to go through except on a small volume of reloads.

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

I have been using the brush wads in my 24ga. Seen little diff in patterns either.
I want to try putting in a spreader in over the brush wad, I will have to order some to fit the 24ga though.

I have some brush wads for the 12, loaded some the other day, haven't shot them. (constructing new pattern board today or tomorrow)

They left all sorts of room in Hull. Cut hull back to 2 1/2. That didn't even quite do it, but if I put a spreader in that, I should be good, just haven't gotten that far yet. Maybe today!!

Interesting discussion gentlemen, thank you.

I'm gathering from these posts that brush wads are marginally effective, and that I would really save myself a lot of time and hassle simply by having my chokes opened. I use the bpi X spreaders also, and 8% more open, with holes, sounds about right.

Opening a f/m gun to ic/m through the use of brush wads and/or spreaders sounds good in theory, but in practice, leaves one wanting.

Joined: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 52

I wouldn't be too quick to alter the chokes in your LeFever if you want to keep their originality. First, look at the info in this link to "Spreader Loads" in General section of this bbs:

http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7682

A lot of nice load spreader patterns there shot out of tight chokes......

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

Some of you are using "brush wads"(wads with petals removed) to create spreader shells that don't seem to be that at all.
For decades ALL shells were loaded with wads that didn't have petals--fiber and card wads were the order of the day for paper hulls (and for some muzzleloaders). Plastic shot wraps (Winchester's Mark-V) and full plastic wads, (Remington's Power Piston, as I recall) were products of the late 50's early 60's.
Brush wad performance is, as Mr. Campbell states, produced by weakening the core of the shot load through a variety of means. Simply removing petals from wads does not, as I understand it, create the 'spreader' effect.

True spreader wads can be very effective in opening patterns. In my own case, I carefully evaluate spreader performance in any given shotgun before modifying choke constriction.

Testing sounds sensible. My 2.5" Lefever barrels are unmolested save for a refinish and dent removal.

So far however, I haven't had great success with the X spreaders by bpi. Are there types that do provide a full degree less of choke without holes? I haven't yet tried the post type, or the card method.

Joined: 13 Jun 2009 Posts: 696 Location: WA/AK

Here is what UMC was offering in 1905 --

Here is the link to the Patent No. 777029

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=6XJQAAAAEBAJ&dq=shot+shell&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=0&as_miny_ap=&as_maxm_ap=0&as_maxy_ap=&as_drrb_is=b&as_minm_is=10&as_miny_is=1904&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=1905

Joined: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 52

U....D....F....

If you'd read the link given just above, you would know what IS working fairly efficiently.......the Poly-Wad spreader with a thin top layer of shot. Check it out.......

I tried them in my merkle O/U and didn't like them --- Man do hey ever dirty a barrel -- guess I'm getting lazy in my old age -- too much cleaning work. Sad

Cheers, John

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

Why would they dirty a barrel? I haven't experienced that.

I wouldn't open the chokes on the ol' girl either. That is just me.

I have stated this many times, I use both X and PW inserts and have had little difference in spread or patter between them.

If you haven't had luck with the x, I certainly would try the PW inserts before doing and choke work. I have not experienced the "holes" that other s seem to have had. I don't put shot over the top either, although I am going to try that.

Buy a box or two from Polywad and see what they do in the gun. Compare that with your reloads. Maybe that gun just doesn't like them.

I use them in my Parker, Citori, SW-16's both Japan and Belgian, and used them in my Upland 12ga with great success.
Even if you only get a 1/2 a choke difference, that is better than nothing??