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Guest

I shot a few boxes of loads with no shot wrapper. I used Alcan Air-Wedge with an Alcan 3/8 waxed edge fiber wad and 700-x powder.

It really didn't open the patterns like I had been informed it would, because of increased bore/pellet scrub. I did get to remove lead from the bores of 3 different barrels though. I still have a few boxes somewhere, and I think they will stay somewhere. Plastic is a lot easier to remove than lead.

I have had varied results with the x wads.

The polywads, for my applications, have been a lot more consistent. In the 12 gauge, Polywad makes the 3-hole style, that did get rid of the patchiness, with the open chokes. I haven't ever actually used them though, past the pattern board. I suspect they act the same as layering a little shot on top of the polywad.

I use the polwads to open the pattern a bit for shooting woodcock and quail, as 1 ounce of 7 1/2's or 8's really beats up the little birds when you center them. I use .010 choke, I have never actually patterned my 16 gauge with polywads, but they work just fine.

Ok, Ok, I'm going to order some polywad spredr inserts and see if they work as advertised.

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

UDF, I bet they work just fine. I carry them (#8's) late season in Iowa when using a single barrel gun with a bit of choke and the chance we'll run into quail on a pheasant hunt. They've patterned and performed well for me.

Here's the result of a regular load against a spred-R load, gun on left using .015" of choke, gun on right with .017". Top patterns are 1oz of shot, bottom patterns 7/8oz with a Spred-R insert.

kgb

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2350 Location: West MI

The PW inserts work well for me when used with brush wads they really open up for close range upland hunting especially brush busting whabbits, grouse and woodies. In a recent exchage with SPR310 he reminded me of how using fiber wads also helps to open things a up a bit.

I have a 24ga O/U that is choked very tight and through experimenting found the fiber wad/polywad insert combo (20ga PW insert doing double duty as an over shot card in my roll crimps) opened the pattern up the most without resorting to choke work.

The 16ga BPI brush wad/yellow PW insert combo also works for me in simillar fashion, also as an OSC. The yellow is nice for quick load recognition in the field. Yellow in last in the mag tube or in the bottom barrel.

Their 12ga insert with the 3 holes worked great in my BPS 10ga when we use to hunt preserves alot and I would be the clean up guy sending a 10ga spreader load out first then follow up with 2 long range basically high speed turkey/duck/goose loads loaded to "yow that hurts" speed with 2oz of #6 through a full choke. Not too proud of this behavior today but it was fun then. Rolling Eyes

Sorry to keep beating the Roll Crimp drum, but, I found that RC'ing allows for that little extra room needed when messing around with spreader inserts; no need to back down on shot to accomodate for the insert and still maintain the recipe integrity.

I think you might like them, good luck, Mike

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

Going to try them in my 24ga too when I get the chance. Doesn't PW make them for 28ga?? I am headed to that site right now!!

I have been roll crimping almost exclusively of late. It takes longer but I love being able to instantly recognize my reloads, and I really like the extra space as mentioned above. I also like the crimp consistency based on each individual shell being loaded.

I haven't used fiber wads yet. Do you just use them in place of a regular wad? Don't pressure and velocity suffer?

Guest

Sorry I haven't read this whole thread, but here are some notes I took back in 2002. I might have a picture of these patterns in my files. I'll see if I can find and post them.

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:08 am Post subject: Some informal spreader load data
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I did a quick pattern check on my new Merkel 1620 the other day and found that the chokes are something like tight IC and IM. Since I was planning on a ruffed grouse hunt in some rather heavy cover today, I loaded up a box of spreader loads using the Polywad insert. The load I selected consisted of an Activ hull, CCI 209 primer, 20 grains of Unique, 1 oz of Lowrance Magnum 7.5, and the 1 oz Gualandi wads that Graf's & Sons sell. This wad has the tear-apart petals and after a word with Ron White on another thread I decided to try separating the petals on this batch. The grouse were far and few between today, but I did get a couple woodcock. Just before I called it a day I shot a couple pattern targets at a measured 15 yards. I think the results are pretty interesting.

The measured diameter of the working patterns (not counting any flyers) are listed below along with the non-spreader data.

Range: 15 yards
Right barrel: 27-28"
Left barrel: 23-24"

According to a pattern chart this would amount to slightly wider than Cyl, and Skeet 1.

The non-spreaders (Federal 1 oz Game Loads) went like this.

Range: 23 yards
Right barrel: 24-25"
Left barrel: 21-22"

This is roughly a tight IC and IM on the same pattern chart.

When you consider the test ranges it becomes clear that the Polywad insert has a dramatic effect in this case. I now see that two more tests are in order. 1. I'll need to load and test the same components, but this time I won't split the petals on the Gualandi wads. 2. I'll test the same components with the petals split, and no Polywad insert.

I guess it's no great secret that the Polywad inserts do indeed work. I'm just wondering if those tear apart petals on the wads have an effect. I believe these are the same wads that Ballistic Products sells (SG16).

_______________________________

I never did bother with more testing on these. I opened the choke on my right barrel to Skeet 1 and rather than using spreaders.

Guest

Uncledanfan,

If you can find plastic gas seals (I think Precision has them), the pressures and velocities will be fairly close to what they are with a regular plastic wad. It is the overpowder cardboard wads that cause pressure and velocity problems not the fiber wads.

The 2 issues that you can run into are, bore leading and confetti. The main reason is that most of the fiber wads are not wax-edged like the Alcan wads were. A lot of guys claim that fiber wads help spread the load and they do but that is because you now have more deformed shot, mainly from bore scrub. My mentality, right or wrong is, I don't want deformed shot just to open a pattern. I want round shot that stays in a pattern that is only dispersed.

Deformed shot leaves the pattern sooner and more unpredictably because the air works on it and makes it a flyer. You can't control the aerodynamics, so you are just hoping that everything works.

If the shot is round you can control the spread a bit more with X-spreaders, Polywad Spred 'R's, chokes and powder selection. The benefit to all this is that you have a pattern that doesn't just give up at a certain yardage. Hunting is a bit unpredictable when it comes to how far away that first shot might be. I don't want that first shot to be a guess, I want to be able to kill with the first shot reliably. I personally, don't like to pull the trigger twice.

Unless I have a chance for a double. Wink

Thanks for the test results Dave.

I agree dc, for hunting purposes I don't like the idea of bore scrubbing to open patterns either. I've been loading brush wads mostly out of necessity to allow enough room for the shot and spreader in a 2.5" hull. Of course, I could just move up to a 2.75" hull, but I'm trying to be kind to my old gun.

If I can't find a load that will work on my own, then I'll just buy some spredr loads from polywad and call it good.

Here's my ideal load: Federal 2.5" hull, 22.5 Universal clays, SG16, 1oz. shot, polywad insert. The only problem is, there's not quite enough room, even when roll crimped. I think using the gas seals instead of the SG16 might be the cat's meow.

Cool thread. Thanks!

Guest

Uncledanfan,

The load the you posted(nice load btw), will work perfect in a 2 3/4" hull.

Why would a load in a 2 3/4" fold crimped hull beat up your old gun anymore than the same load in a 2 1/2" roll crimped hull? If anything the pressures would be slightly less with the longer hull. Just wondering why you feel that way? Unless, of course, you have a 2 1/2" chambered gun.

I do have a 2.5" gun. I might bump the hull length to 2 9/16", and I'm hoping the polywad inserts take up less space than the x spreaders. I just loaded a few with the SG16 petals intact and with the x spreader insert, and it worked - barely. I could use just a wee bit more room.

Guest

I think they both take the same amount of room. With the Polywad Spred'R's you are suppoesed to take out 1/8 oz. of shot to keep the pressures at approximately the same level, so things will work out for the best, I would think.

Good Luck, you will like the Polywads.

Joined: 13 Jun 2009 Posts: 696 Location: WA/AK

When I started reloading in the 1960s to shoot trap, virtually everybody loaded the Federal paper hull. The 3 dram equiv. 1 1/8 ounce load most used was the Federal paper hull, Federal 209 primer, 23 grains of Red Dot, a .135 Nitro Card Wad, two 3/8 inch Felton Blue Streaks and 1 1/8 ounce of shot, held in with a six-point folded crimp. The first advance in reloading was the PGS (Plastic Gas Seal) that replaced the Nitro Card Wad and the powder load was reduced to 18 grains of Red Dot. That little bit of plastic with its skirt to form a much better seal then the nitro card allowed an over 20% reduction in powder charge.

With those shells the good shooters were getting plenty of 25 straights, so I'm thinkin' not having that bit of plastic around your shot isn't going to open up patterns much by itself. There were no plastic shot collars when Joe Hiestand went 1404 without a miss with his Ithaca Single Barrel Trap.

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

No, you don't need to take out 1/8oz of shot out of the payload!
The insert simply takes up about as much room as an 1/8 oz of shot would. Keep that in mind when looking for a good load.

The insert will have darn little impact on pressure.

I will have to look at my data, but I think in the 65mm hull, I use the Z16 wad and the PW/X insert and roll crimp? Would need to check that of course.

I also remember using a load once with 2 16ga gas seals, but I would need to look into the stack of "papers" to find that load! It isn't on my spreadsheet.

I bet if you went to 67mm hull, things might be just right for you too?

Hootch, that sounds plausible. Is the 65mm equivalent to the 2.5" and the 67mm a 2 5/8?

You're right, the Z16 wad will work space-wise (I've used it as a brush wad in the short hull for 1 1/8oz. loads), but I was under the assumption that the Z16 is more of a long range wad since the petals have more plastic holding them together and don't open as easily, thus holding the shot together longer, which would seem to be the enemy of a spreader load's intent. Am I wrong on that assumption?