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Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 428

This is correct: Pi (3.1416) x the Radius Squared = AREA

3.1416 x 15 x 15 = 706.86 Sq. Inches in the 30" circle Wink

Slidehammer,

Buy a Diffusion (rifled) choke and you will get your wish Exclamation

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

Now that it appears we have the "square load" (and I mean LOAD Rolling Eyes

) worked out, can one of you scientists give me an estimate as to the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin? Wink

By the way, DanArms (aka The Cubic Shot Company as I recall) sold a 'square load' (and maybe still do).... 1 ounce of CUBIC shot (#7 according to them).

Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 428

Slidehammer,

Even though the constriction of the Diffusion choke tube is .005 or SKEET, I found that with 7.5 shot Nitro 27 1-1/8 ounce 1,235 fps loads, I was breaking targets at 70 yards that I could not seem to break with an Improved Mod choke Exclamation

I know, I would laugh too if someone had told me that they could break targets @ 70 yards with a skeet choke Laughing

,had I not shot them myself.

I am not sure why, but the rifling appears to enhance the pellets friction breaking characteristics. No, I'm not lying about the yardage --- if anything I am being conservative when I say 70 yards.

I'm not crazy or insane, not currently or previously kept in a metal institution, and have several others that will verify the kills. Now, that being said, these were clay birds and not real ones, but I was suprised to say the least that they even made the distance.

I would love to see more testing performed with the Diffusion choke tube. Not necessariliy to prove my claim, but more to prove my sanity because I don't even believe it myself and I was there. Laughing

I just went to my reloading area and built a 16 gauge square load. I measured the inside diameter of a BP Trap Commander wad (.617") and filled it up with #7 1/2 shot to this same depth as the I.D., that is to say the column of shot inside the wad was as tall as it was wide. Then I weighed this ammount of shot. It came out to be 310 grains, or around 2/3 ounce (between 5/8 and 3/4 oz.). So that is a square load in a 16 gauge shell with this wad. A muzzle-loading shotgun with a true diameter of 16 gauge would hold more shot in a "square" configuration. But in a 16 gauge shell with a plastic wad, the square load seems to come out to a 28 gauge shot weight equivalent Shocked

.

Golfswithwolves welcome to the enlightened , thanks for rolling up your sleeves and going and doing what you just done , that is the exact load I shot the Tenn . State Shoot with and ran 95 straight low gun with 11/16 OZ of shot .

Regards , Charles

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Hi Slide,

I understand what you are trying to do.

I don't know why, you want to spread out the pellets that much.

You are sellin' yourself short. You can and do shoot much better than you think and 10" of extra pattern width isn't worth the degredation in the patterns

For me I want a core dense pattern. I'm not lookin' to get 'lucky' and fringe anything. I want to kill it or miss it. And if I hit it I want to get all of it. I want the bird on the ground dead, and I don't want my dogs to have to chase a wounded rooster around. If the dogs are chasin' a bird around than I haven't held up my end of things.

Let's say for the sake of argument that I don't believe in killing gamebirds in the head. So I am going to hit a game bird in the body. I believe that a pheasant presents about 12 square inches from most angles. What would you rather have 3.6 pellets in the boiler room with your pattern or 5.5 pellets in the boiler room with my pattern.

Whether you like the central thickening ratio or not, it is the accepted standard, with folks in the shotshell business. Once the ratio gets to 1.5 to 1 the pattern is pretty well done. You are close to 1 to 1.

I pretty well understand that you don't think much of the ammunition industry in this country. I also pretty well understand that I won't change your mind.

The other point I will make is this. You undoubtedly spent a lot of time to fashion a load to get the pattern the way you have it. Just using card and fiber wads isn't the whole deal, I have shot quite a few reloads with Alcan fiber wads( with and without a shot wrapper ) and the patterns looked a lot like a one piece plastic wad pattern. With plastic wads it is one heck of a lot easier to find a load the way I like it. For the most part, use the correct powder for the shot payload and then find the right choke constriction. In addition, my reloading is a lot simpler and for my way of thinkin' that means less problems.

So I guess I will agree to disagree on this patterning stuff.

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Kolar Dan

Diffusion Choke = Snake Oil

If there is only .005 constriction and you are using a Remington Factory target load. the wad is either a Figure 8 or a TGT 12 both have very small outside diameters somewhere in the .710 - .715 size. Even if it was a Beretta skeet choke with a .005 constriction that would be about .718 or so inside diameter. The grooves might engage the petals of the wad.

On top of that a rifled choke tube is at the very end of the barrel, even if the wad did fully engage. What are you going to get maybe an eighth of a turn on the wad? Before anything really happens the shot is in free flight, with almost no rotation. The shot column is fairly fluid so.....

Diffusion Choke = Snake Oil

If you are worried about the shot stringing in your loads.........only shoot directly incoming birds.........or birds going directly away(at a speed less than your load fps).....then no worries about stringing.

Its them passing, left/right, very fast birds......that might have a chance to fly through your pattern.

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Tony,

Nice job!!! Laughing

You have managed to turn a totally useless concept into a living, breathing pile of horse manure. Laughing

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Nick,

Just remember you voted me into your Hillbilly Redneck Club.

So you have no one to blame but yourself Laughing

I know Mark , I know !!!!!!!

Wait for my announcement latter today , I am very excited indeed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Indian is the most important thing not the bow , most Indians cannot shoot the bow they have well enough to know the difference in bows .

Those that can well!!!!!!!!!!!!! that is an entirely different story they can tell subtle differences and enhanced performance but that is less than a 5-10% difference in performance in bows to begin with .

I didn't set in the tunnel at MoneyMaker Guncraft shooting patterns for 15 years for nothing , and what I learned is that once you have shot a pattern at paper is , NOW YOU HAVE TO COUNT THE HOLES no more no less.

A good pattern on paper .
DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN A GOOD LOAD OR COMBINATION FOR WINGSHOOTING AND VISE VERSA .

Pattern paper for CARD SHOOTS , TURKEY LOADS , DEER LOADS , COYOTE LOADS and forget it for WINGSHOOTING it is ONLY a reference it tells you where the load is printing .

Shoot flying stuff with the loads your wanting to wingshoot with and forget the rest , SIMPLY TOO MANY VARIABLES TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT , SHOOTING A SHOTGUN IS AN ATHALETIC EVENT , become a better Athalete if you want to kill more game .

Regards , Charles

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Hey Nick,

All of this stuff we write about here, doesn't mean squat if you can't shoot. Even then all this debating shot size and patterns and velocities is so far down the list of importance.

Being able to center your target is miles ahead of all this stuff we debate. Trouble is when you are talking about shooting it is black and white either you centered the target or you didn't. You can't B.S. about the hit or missed target. 'Cause anything you say about a missed target is just an excuse. Like the skeet shooter that gets done with a round and looks at his choke and says(and I have heard this), "here's why I shot a 17, because I have an Improved cylinder choke in the gun, not my skeet tube." Rolling Eyes

Like he could've run a 25 with the skeet tube in place. Laughing

Only in his dreams, what happens when he wakes up, he shoots another 17 that's what Laughing

Now that takes all the fun out of it beceause there isn't any stretching the truth about that. Heck this junk we debate, whether you know your stuff or not, you can keep these threads going on forever.

Look at this one Nick 4 pages of horse manure about an idea that never had any validity to it. Laughing

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Hey Nick,

I am going to pattern some 7/8's loads with that DR16 wad of yours and see how it patterns against the 1 oz. and 1 1/8 oz. loads I am now shooting, should be fun. I might just throw that 3/4 oz. load in the mix also.

I will let you guys know tonight how it went.