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Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 16 Location: CT

Is there a hand loading, roll crimp, guide for dummies somewhere that I can reference? And not just the crimp process. Looking for A - Z process. I want to start hand loading 2.5” 12 and 2.5” 16 gauge roll crimped shells with bismuth. Low pressure for my vintage SxSs, that I’m currently shooting RST lite shells out of. I don’t want to adjust my reloaders for the shorter hull length. Plus I don’t plan on hand loading hundreds of these a season, so it will be low volume, maybe 50-100 of each per season. I don’t need the load data. I need something to show me the process and the tools required.

I reload my target shells for modern guns on MECs, so I understand that process. I’d like to reload these 2.5” low pressure shells completely by hand, without using one of my MECs for any “stage.” So I’d like to see a list of tools needed and the process around them. If it’s documented somewhere on the inter web that someone knows of. Thanks!

Thanks!

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1851 Location: Central ND

Hi, since I have made suggestions on SGW, I will stay out of this thread. Someone here, will definitely give you some other ideas.

Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 16 Location: CT

Joined: 21 Mar 2019 Posts: 529 Location: Texas

Fishrising:
Welcome and Mark has given you good advice along with some others on the other forum. I load brass, and it’s all pretty much by hand. With a little practice you can load pretty quick, not that speed matters to me. I find it relaxing. I roll and fold crimp and have tried all the crimpers. The best for a press is gaep, hands down. If you don’t like Italy, then precision is next. BP just sucks in my opinion. I even finish with gaep, makes a factory looking shell. I also roll with the old fashioned hand roll. Works very well but sure takes a toll on the wrist. Drill press with hull vise is the way to go. I load on mec and have adapted some machines for fiber wads and even brass. With the mec 600 you can see your wad seating pressure. While I have smacked a dowl with a hammer many times, it’s nice to have consistent wad pressure. In my patterning it makes a difference. You can buy the old black powder tools on eBay. They work, or if your handy you can make your own. I made all mine from dowl rods and knobs from Lowes or Home Depot.

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3440 Location: Illinois

BPI out of Wisconsin

Another possibility - Lee hand reloader.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/353890441910?hash=item5265839ab6:g:L8AAAOSwHIZh~BCP

fishrising -- I don't know why you would not want to take advantage of various stations of your MEC 600 for the job you describe. You mention the desire to avoid adjustements. Using the resizing/de-priming station, re-priming station, and wad ramming station (to get a uniform pressure on those over-powder wads), does not involve any adjustments for hull length and crimp. You might even want to use the powder drop (charge bar). That means you can load as normal MEC 600 sequence right up to the point of putting in the shot you desire -- scale-weighed bismuth, I take it. If you can select the proper charge bar, or use an adjustable, you can even drop the shot reliably enough and do everything but the roll crimp. That's how I do it. No sense buying old-fashioned "hand-style" loading gear, and fiddling around with it when you've already got a nice single-stage re-loader.

By the way, FWIW, when I want to load with greater precison, I load in stages, first resizing and re-priming all the hulls of a batch, usually on a MEC 600. Any single-stage loader will generally do. I either measure my powder drops on a scale, or set up a crank-type powder measure and use that to drop either a whole batch or a "row" on a shell-holding block. My powder measure is an old Herter's unit. Then I ram the wads on the whole batch before going to the shot, which is scale-weighed for each shell. I use a dipper that gets close, and have a small bowl of shot handy so I can pinch up some and add one at a time until I get just what I want on the scale. This actually goes pretty fast. If I'm using a pie crimp or Hartin crimp, I do it with each shell immediately after inserting the shot -- keeps the potential for shot spillage to a minimum. If I'm roll-crimping, I put the over-shot card on each shell immediately after the shot goes in for the same reason, and then once the whole batch is done that way, then I go to roll crimping -- on a small drill press. You will find this method and sequence is a lot more uniform and faster than you can do with "hand tools". I load brass shotshells approximately this way also.

Needless to say, for this type of loading, my batch size is 1 until I get the load looking right. Then batches are typically 25 or 50. Even if I want to load 500 roll-crimped shells of one type, I would do it in batches of those sizes. If I can tolerate greater imprecision, I will use a regular charge bar with inserts (I always "tune up" both shot cavity and powder bushings to drop what I want), or an adjustable charge bar.

Cheers!

Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 16 Location: CT

fishrising,
When you make a living in the digital world, analog is a mind clearing and expanding change. Old school rocks. I use Maximumsmoke's recommended hybrid process with an old roll crimper or sometimes the original Lee loader (tap-tap). Wish I had a book or manual to recommend, but most of my knowledge came from watching as a kid and reconstructing the process with advice from folks here. Good luck with the process...

Joined: 18 Apr 2018 Posts: 28 Location: Alaska

Ideal handbook 38 from 1951 is posted on line by New Zealand Handloaders Association. It is a non too sharp PDF image and somewhat specific to the the tools that Ideal made but it gives the general idea.
Cornell Publications has Ideal manual reproductions for sale, going back to number 1 from 1891. I have never seen their product so I can't speak to quality.
Old shotgun shell reloading tools turn up on Wards Auctions, Ebay, and some on line gun auction sites.

AKDan,
Thanks for that reference to the PDF. Fun coincidence for me on page 171, I have the Leupold redo of the Lyman Alaskan 2.5 scope advertised there. Serious nostalgia PDF...

Member Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 372 Location: mpls mn

I agree with Max Smoke after all I learned most of what I know about reloading from hanging out with him.
Depriming, resizing and repriming and is the one step that will be a challenge with out using the mec. There are " hull conditioners" out there at gun shows and ebay land like the Texan hull conditioner but you already have the mec
Wad pressure in a non issue with modern wads easily done with a dowel I use and old 1/2 pencil
How I do mine
condition hull
set on scale and zero
Add powder until you get what you want. Max smoke has a great home made dipper out of a 45acp case from his dad I copied
insert wad get it tight on powder
set hull on scale and zero add shot
insert over shot card and roll crimp
all roll crimpers are not created equal the old lyman's and precision reloading work well
mines in a drill press I don't use a hull vise I have a piece of plywood with some 320 sandpaper glued on it clamped to the drill press table the grips enough to keep the hull from turning. Once you get in a grove you can crank out the finished ammo quickly

Member Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 372 Location: mpls mn

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294828409857?hash=item44a5248401:g:fNYAAOSw8S9iEwBF

Look up 16 gauge reloading on ebay lots of hand loading tools from Russia and vintage roll crimpers